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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Paper-Gamer.com presents: Talking Crap - Episode 4
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Paper-Gamer.com presents:
Talking Crap!
A magical podcast
Episode 4
Talking crap is a podcast starring Levi "Thinks-he-owns-the-place" Hinz, and Cameron "Controversial" Veigel, bringing you opinions and insights you can happily ignore, or pass on to your children's children.
Insulting people in the nicest possible way.
(Right click, Save As.)
In this episode:
* Prerelease Stories and Comments
* Prerelease Staff
* Brisbane Tournament News
* Shards of Alara - Impact on standard
* Format of the Week: Elder Dragon Highlander (EDH)
* Deck tech: Standard WUB Control
* Upcoming Events
* Shout-Outs
Credits:
Starring: Levi Hinz and Cameron Veigel
Recording Date: Monday 29nd September, 2008
Insert caaaraaaaazy comment here!
Title and end song: The Knife - Heartbeats
Running time: Approx 33 mins.
File size: 7.8 Mb
Unofficial Rating: PG. Mild coarse language. _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari
Last edited by weasel on Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:48 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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badlittlemonkey Monkey Magic

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 2769
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:04 am Post subject:
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Tan will just be the TO for Drafts, John Tong will always be the judge...phew
The idea is Tan builds up his levels so that the whole fnm does not fall over if Michael Barclay cant make friday nights.
Sanction but no FNM foils at the start. |
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71dion

Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 1672 Location: Sunny Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:30 am Post subject:
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Another great show guys, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it..... cheers _________________ Only wish I had more time to play..... seeing the PTQ was my last tourney....  |
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badguy Like Arnie, or like Nixon?
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Posts: 395
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:09 am Post subject:
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| Good work guys, is a pleasant way to relax for 1/2 an hour at work while looking like I'm working hard |
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MulliAgain
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 227 Location: In a galaxy far, far away...
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:
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Yeah the conversation in the show flows really well and the time spent discussing each topic is right on.
This weeks special guest was a little hard to hear though (barking in the background). |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:
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Barking? I thought that a person  _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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archelon Voice of Reason
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 2859
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:12 am Post subject:
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Yeah the dog next door was going nuts. You should have heard the bit I edited out!!!  |
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AanAllein Dave Who?

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 4383
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Paper-Gamer.com presents: Talking Crap - Episode 4
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| weasel wrote: | | Title and end song: The Knife - Heartbeats |
i think i like this podcast the best, partly because i didn't know this song's name!
but yeah, you covered most of the pertinent points in an interesting way, and a number of times i thought "oh i hope they bring x up" and every time you did. good work guys, keep it up |
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archelon Voice of Reason
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 2859
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:17 am Post subject:
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| Yeah chubtoad, who is snide and unhelpful now??? |
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AanAllein Dave Who?

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 4383
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:19 am Post subject:
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| archelon wrote: | | Yeah chubtoad, who is snide and unhelpful now??? |
stfu noob |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:19 am Post subject:
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| archelon wrote: | | Yeah chubtoad, who is snide and unhelpful now??? |
Mulli?  _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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archelon Voice of Reason
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 2859
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:32 am Post subject:
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| AanAllein wrote: | | archelon wrote: | | Yeah chubtoad, who is snide and unhelpful now??? |
stfu noob |
Hey man, I was backing you up!
And I voted for ed anyways! :p |
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MulliAgain
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 227 Location: In a galaxy far, far away...
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | archelon wrote:
Yeah chubtoad, who is snide and unhelpful now???
Mulli? |
Nothing so exciting. I'm just a grumpy old man. |
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Bobmarlay Blue Steele!

Joined: 19 Dec 2007 Posts: 670 Location: Brisburn
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject:
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| and i voted you second in a beauty competition cameron, collect $10 off each player |
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mindfire
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 1028 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject:
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| MulliAgain wrote: | | I'm just a grumpy old man. |
You can't - because I am - and there isn't room for two of us in this one-horse town. |
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Miffed Moogle Mr Sanderson

Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 347 Location: Brisbane
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject:
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I liked it, the editing really shows, although it's so short now, I always hope it does longer! (compared to MTG salvation especially heh, although they do ramble on).
I can't wait until new place is up, Ipswich is so far, but I'm very grateful Andrew, Johnny and Aaron did what they did, especially since Chris is having difficulties it seems (if he is resetting up). I can't wait! _________________ EDH Decks:
Gwafa Hazid - My Archenemy General
Savra, Queen of the Golgari
Volrath, the Fallen |
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silensis Comes into play tapped

Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 698
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject:
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I will admit I probably overstated the crapness of the set. It is still a pretty crap set(in my opinion), but obviously there are going to be some playables. I do think chapin massively exaggerated the number of playables in the set though.
I will retract what I said before, I now think that shards is the worst big set that has been released since I started playing magic(by far)
I really really hate the fact that there are nearly 0 playable monocoloured cards in the set and the spots wasted on reprinting cards that are already in another expansion in standard. There is no thoughtseize/colossus/bitterblossom/mystical teachings/teferi/damnation/meloku/divining top/remand quality card in this set. As far as I see it all the staple cards for standard are currently coming from lorwyn block. Hopefully I am wrong.
Coldsnap was maybe a worse set. |
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AanAllein Dave Who?

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 4383
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject:
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| silensis wrote: | I will admit I probably overstated the crapness of the set. It is still a pretty crap set(in my opinion), but obviously there are going to be some playables. I do think chapin massively exaggerated the number of playables in the set though.
I will retract what I said before, I now think that shards is the worst big set that has been released since I started playing magic(by far)
I really really hate the fact that there are nearly 0 playable monocoloured cards in the set and the spots wasted on reprinting cards that are already in another expansion in standard. There is no thoughtseize/colossus/bitterblossom/mystical teachings/teferi/damnation/meloku/divining top/remand quality card in this set. As far as I see it all the staple cards for standard are currently coming from lorwyn block. Hopefully I am wrong.
Coldsnap was maybe a worse set. |
wild nacatl, sarkhan vol, bant charm, woolly thoctar, tidehollow sculler, sharuum the hegemon all have potential to compete with some of the cards on that list. maybe esper charm too. and that's just at a glance
now, to expect a new big set to compete with two sets of a tribal block in terms of forming the basis for decks is a touch misguided - clearly the tribal synergies, at this stage, are going to push you in that direction. but early 5 colour lists (aka vivid lands + all the best spells) look like they have a lot of different cards to take out of shards
i think the problem with your assessment of the set isn't that it's wrong, since you generally have a good read on constructed. the issue, rather, is that you are a touch biased looking at a set. take a glance at the list you posted - every card but one is U/B, and the Green card saw the most play out of control decks. a substantial chunk of the playable cards in shards slot more easily into aggro (and the multicoloured/affinity-based cards are going to have a bigger splash in extended than standard), so this might be affecting your evaluation
related note - one wonders why cards like, say, flame javelin, figure of destiny, rift bolt and lotus bloom didn't make your list of influential cards from recent sets... they've seen just as much play as most of the cards you've mentioned (or mutavault for that matter. mutavault!)
i agree that chapin is overselling the set a little, but there's definitely a lot of constructed potential there. the big problem is that at this stage all the multicoloured manafixing is very slow, and a lot of the good aggro cards require you to be multicoloured. ravnica duels in the next base set might change that...? |
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silensis Comes into play tapped

Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 698
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:35 am Post subject:
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The reason only those cards made my list is because I spent all of 1 secopnd thinking it up, and those are the cards I have played a lot. Obviously every staple card didn't make it on there.
Yeah, I was probably biased going in, but at this point I have had time to look at all the cards and I am far from excited. I agree that some of the cards on your list are powerful, the problem is that they are all multi-colour(I count nacatl as multi-colour), most of them 3 colours. Cards like colossus or cryptic command can go in many different decks.
I don't expect 1 set to be equal to lorwyn block, I would hope for it to at least make a decent ripple in the format though. Not just add 2 or 3 new cards for current decks.
Anyway, we have what we have and I am dealing with it. I am over the fact that I hate the set and I am attempting to make the best of it by trying to figure out which cards R&D made by accident. |
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AanAllein Dave Who?

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 4383
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:57 am Post subject:
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i dunno. shadowmoor/eventide didn't really make any new decks either. i mean, even when time spiral block was legal, the vast majority of decks were still lorwyn based... revillark being the main exception. i think when you have a linear block with a couple non-linear blocks, it's not too surprising to see the linear block take precedence in establishing deck skeletons
i don't quite agree that cryptic command can go in any deck though. triple U is about as restrictive a mana cost as CDE... if you're not obsessed with playing islands
i'm more looking at the set in regards to extended (since, when is standard relevant again? not for ages, right?) where it you get a lot more value from the set thanks to cards like salvage titan and master of etherium giving you more options in affinity, and fetchlands letting you cast the spells more easily in decks that don't have 20 come-into-play-tapped lands |
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MulliAgain
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 227 Location: In a galaxy far, far away...
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:
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| I'd like to see Fae decks morph into something more aggressive using Grixis Charm's and Agony Warp's in place of Rune Snag and Terror. |
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tnert

Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 946 Location: Acacia Ridge
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:38 am Post subject:
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would esper charm be better for its aggro-control niche? _________________
| predat0r, talking to badlittlemonkey wrote: | | You're lucky you have a lot of friends, because that deck isn't making you any new ones. |
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badlittlemonkey Monkey Magic

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 2769
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:03 am Post subject:
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| tnert wrote: | | would esper charm be better for its aggro-control niche? |
Yeh I am nearly 99% going to add white to my Fairie deck and Esper Charm is the main reason. I just need to find one other white card worth playing.... |
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MulliAgain
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 227 Location: In a galaxy far, far away...
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | | would esper charm be better for its aggro-control niche? |
Probably. There seems to be room for one set of charms in the deck.
I still like Grixis Charm - all creatures +2/+0 (with fae tokens), plus it is solid removal. |
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badlittlemonkey Monkey Magic

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 2769
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:
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If fairies was red blue black you got to play at least one Cruel ultimatum |
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tnert

Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 946 Location: Acacia Ridge
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:26 am Post subject:
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in faeries? why bother with an endgame when you're supposed to stop the opponent getting there? _________________
| predat0r, talking to badlittlemonkey wrote: | | You're lucky you have a lot of friends, because that deck isn't making you any new ones. |
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badlittlemonkey Monkey Magic

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 2769
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:
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| tnert wrote: | | in faeries? why bother with an endgame when you're supposed to stop the opponent getting there? |
Because you no longer have Rune Snag and Visions the only (good) deck slower than Fairies at the moment is Five color.
You have slots because Scion of Oona is horrible in firesprout meta....but may be good in esper charm meta.
A lot of lists play 1 oona, which wins if you untap. Cruel Ultimatum you dont have to untap
Plus it would be dam fun!
Although I prefer BUW than BUR but will have to investigate further if the splash is worth it. |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:55 am Post subject:
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Well at first I thought you were crazy, but thats some pretty solid reasoning right there. The only thing that would hold me back is having to add bad mana to your 2-color deck. _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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badlittlemonkey Monkey Magic

Joined: 22 Jan 2007 Posts: 2769
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:
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Its Luke that's advocating UBR. I just say if your going to play those color you have to play the "ULTIMATE" spell..... unless its the pro tour or your trying to win or something.
I don't fully agree going UBR with that because it doesn't overcome the card draw problem.
I prefer UWB with just 4 x the UWB comes into play tapped land (fine on turn one), 1 plains and 4 x the sac land which as most of your early spells are 2 cost but only one colored you don't really have to sack straight away.
That choice means sunken ruins (aka cryptic command mana land) and reflecting pool aren't your go to lands but I prefer the sac land because you can go 25 and 26 land and not take a hit in card quality and drawing, which is even more important post Visions.
If you can resist the need to add wrath, and instead plan for condemn or some other good one colored white cost spells it makes sense.
It comes down to a battle of the charms though and I think Esper charm is the one because all 3 modes are likely to be good. I would play 6 if allowed.
UWB gives you card draw and blossom advantage while RUB gives you Terror Redundancy and two bonus effects. I don't think Fairies can really out aggro Kithkin or "Super Duper Lawrence Boros deck" so I like UWB.
Damm you Weasel, tricking me into letting you know all my plans! |
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MulliAgain
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 227 Location: In a galaxy far, far away...
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:28 am Post subject:
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Long live Boros (although he has been in a coma lately).
This is an interesting thread. It is evident that the fae can choose between a more control (UBW) or aggro based deck (UBR) in the format. That flexibility may see it continue strong in constructed. |
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71dion

Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 1672 Location: Sunny Gold Coast
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:
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Having never played the fae ( and not likely to in the future ), I think Andrew's reasoning is pretty solid and worth investigating for those who love the little fliers...... also, the mana base he talked about seems in theory to be fairly solid and consistent..... ( even possibly for Wrath with a little further tweaking )... _________________ Only wish I had more time to play..... seeing the PTQ was my last tourney....  |
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silensis Comes into play tapped

Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 698
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject:
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| is Ep 5 coming today? |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject:
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It has been recorded, but we (and by we, I mean Cameron) haven't had the time to edit it yet.
I'd do it, but I'm terrible.
It should before the end of the week, for sure. _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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silensis Comes into play tapped

Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 698
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject:
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| nooooooooooooooooo I'm so borrrrrred |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
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So listen to the other episodes, on repeat.
I know I do. _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject:
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Or better yet, write an article about your Legacy deck. _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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silensis Comes into play tapped

Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 698
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:
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| I don't care enough, or know enough about legacy to do that. |
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weasel Site Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 8545 Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:
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Well caring enough is a problem, but as far as knowing about the format, you don't need to know about it to write about it. You know more than many that would read it, and you can always angle it as the view of someone who doesn't know. I don't know anything and I'm always giving my opinion  _________________ Support Paper-Gamer.com
Tell all your friends!
You make the community.
Check out Talking Crap - The Podcast!
"Thieves are stupid, that's why they're thieves." -Ari |
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tnert

Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 946 Location: Acacia Ridge
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:
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things like optimal use of lion's eye diamond etc. _________________
| predat0r, talking to badlittlemonkey wrote: | | You're lucky you have a lot of friends, because that deck isn't making you any new ones. |
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